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okay I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri the
bodies have been buried the shooting for
now at least has stilled but the
reverberations of the killings in Paris
are far from being played out in France
more than a 100 attacks on Muslims and
their properties have been reported well
not reported by the mainstream media if
you know what I mean there has been
Mayhem in Belgium and the head of
British Security Service says it's
almost inevitable that a similar
disaster is on its way to us we appear
locked in an intractable conflict we can
go blindly forwards or we can embrace
the dictum that when you're in a hole
the first thing you should do is stop
digging joining us now to reflect on
this is one of the world's leading
Muslim analysts and its most eloquent
spokesman the head of the Cordoba
Foundation anas alrti anas welcome back
to to the Sputnik uh it is still
reverberating isn't it the Charlie hebdo
magazine is about to be published and
sold in Britain with inevitable protests
I myself addressed a mass rally in
Bradford last weekend uh making the
point that was we utterly condemn the
harming uh let alone the killing of
anyone for anything they've said written
drawn
these are provocations these are not
cartoons these are obscene and
pornographic representations of a profet
held dear by almost two billion people
in the world it's asking for trouble
well George first of all G thank you
very much for inviting me back on the
program um you're absolutely right I
think you've hit the nail on the head uh
I mean since when did um Europe measure
its uh progress civility Liberty and
development on the basis of its capacity
and actitude to hurl insult and offend
others and plus it's a mirage free
speech is a lie when at the very rally
the 1 and a half million March in Paris
to condemn those atrocious attacks
called the freedom of speech rally when
the
BBC correspondent there couldn't even
dare ask a question without being
reprimanded and forced to apologize I
mean the irony is St it's not about
freedom of speech it's uh here I mean
we're talking about something that
unfortunately we have totally lost
control over and that is um how we
behave ourselves I mean we thought it
was uh exclusive to the political class
we thought that only politicians can
talk about democracy while supporting
dictatorships can talk about human
rights while exercising torture can talk
about Liberty and freedom while
censoring we thought it was only
exclusive to politicians it it seems
that actually societies as a whole are
led by a media narrative that tells them
to behave in a particular way that it's
okay or not okay to do or say and
unfortunately today uh you you sort of
forget exactly what it is that we're
fighting for as societies what do we
stand for anymore when your measure of
freedom is you know your ability to
actually offend insult the most sacred
uh figures and icons of three 3 million
people who live amongst you whom you
live amongst who share your neighborhood
who share the marketplace from which you
shop who share the restaurants you know
from at which you eat and so on and so
forth It's H it's it's quite disgusting
the the level of of vital that that
actually guides us and I fear I fear
what we're calling on is more and more
and more divisions more and more um
apprehension um uh fear probably well
fear and and and probably even out of
those Millions will appear again a
handful of idiots who choose to take
things at their own hands and seek
Vengeance which everyone condemns but
ultimately you'll have to say listen if
you poke someone in the eye once too
many you have to expect a response well
the security service uh have made that
clear that it's almost inevitable that's
this is their words that something like
this is going to happen in Britain and
the former head of the security services
Sawyer said that these cartoons are are
a provocation but you go on well um
Charlie HDO sells itself as a sacal
magazine in in in UK we've also got a
similar like satire magazine called the
private eye do you think it's in the
same league not at all I mean private
eye is is is a publication um you know
if you go decades back it it has a long
standing in Tradition in poking fun at
politicians in expressing people's uh
own uh bewilderment with the way that
Pol Ians are acting with the political
class with the kind of you know Silly
and stupid statements that politicians I
mean it's it's a totally different thing
this is directed towards Muslims
everywhere around the world Muslims and
black people uh this cannot be uh
forgotten hebdo's caricaturing of black
people is utterly racist whether they're
Muslim wasn't it the French Minister the
black French Minister whom they depicted
as an ape they depicted her as an ape
the uh the girls in Nigeria who who were
kidnapped who were caricatured as
welfare Queens with pregnant bellies
saying when do I get my benefits and so
these are racist
hypocritical uh scarless Magazine with
one agenda only to attack the already
marginalized to attack the already
vulnerable and weak rather than the real
job of a saturnist which I would argue
is what privati does of holding the
powerful and the rich to account we've
got the front page here which sums it up
perfectly there's that March in Paris to
which you referred J charlatan they're
saying we are charlatans you were too
kind to them Netanyahu was at the front
of the March he killed 17 journalists in
Gaza just last summer the Saudi
Ambassador was at the front of the March
they're flogging people for blogging the
Prime Minister and uh president of
several African countries who routinely
uh Jail uh and worse uh journalists and
yet they they are Marching for we fre we
we have a we have a problem and that
problem is that now whilst hypocrisy was
uh
uh it was something that that was quite
a a shameful label to carry yes it seems
that now people don't really mind it and
don't really
mind showing that they don't mind it I
mean the people there you know people
who actually have blood on their hands
um arriving at a scene where people are
supposedly talking about the freedom of
speech I most of the people leading that
the that particular line were people who
wouldn't allow or in fact actively
closed down areas and spaces for people
to express themselves so being there is
as though I'm you know sending a message
I'm not only going to oppress you I'm
going to you know sort of celebrate
being here while suppressing you I don't
even care about being accused of
oppressing you anymore and that is and
and that is where I think we have we
have a real problem and and I My Hope
was and I have to say that sectors of
the media have behaved incredibly
responsibly and you know the the
responses to some of the idiotic
statements and tweets made by people
like like Rupert Murdoch like uh Steve
Emerson of late who who spoke of
Birmingham as being an entirely Muslim
uh Muslim City he hounded me for many
decades as a terrorism expert and he
thought that Birmingham United Kingdom
was Muslim no go area for non-muslims I
mean these these people um the when they
spoke the massive response that came
from non-muslims to them you know the
way that JK Rowling for instance a said
you know if I have to be responsible for
for rupit Murdoch the way that he he
helds the entire Muslim Community
responsible for those criminals in in
France then you know I'm you know it's
it's it's amazing let's go deeper
because uh time is short um
this is located in the so-called war on
terror The Invasion and occupation of
one Arab and Muslim country after
another these things don't come out of
thin air Western countries like ours
like uh the United States and France
laterally have been deeply implicated in
The Invasion occupation of Arab
countries Muslim countries in the
buttressing of dictatorships in other
Muslim countries against their uh people
and the motivation of these lunatics
these criminals who did all this in
Paris uh was itself born uh out of that
they told us so in their videos true um
are we locked into this constant war and
is it going to get worse well unless we
change our ways George I mean in your
introduction you you said it I mean now
what 13 14 years on year on year as the
if we were to believe everything the
intelligence Services tell us things are
getting worse more and more recruits
more and more sympathized to the
terrorist cause uh you know more and
more attacks are being fought that's
what they tell us at least we don't know
the reality so if we're to believe that
it means that for the past 13 years year
on year there has been a failure but no
one is brave enough to stand up and say
hang on we've got it wrong we must think
in a in a different way I mean I think
it was the the former French prime
minister dilipan brilliant brilliant
politic someone whom I I have immense
because he was with us remember at the
time of the war in Iraq
of spech and the way in he which he
spoke while while still the you know the
smoke was churning out of those places
in Paris and he said you know this isn't
the the the fault of Islam it's the
fault of Western policies going
absolutely berserk and creating you know
anomalies such as Isis and and others in
in the Middle East someone like him
needs to be heard more it's actually the
fact that these people first of all they
are products of Europe not of some
Muslim country in in fact in that
particular scene the product of a Muslim
country was the guy who protected the
Jews in the kosher shop and led them to
safety to save their lives that was the
product of a Muslim land Mali otherwise
The Killers if we again are to believe
who they they are and and their
backgrounds they're products of British
societies of French societies of
European societies why blame Islam most
Muslims around the world don't behave in
that way most Muslims around the world
whilst being grossly offended by Charlie
ABDO never went and attacked one
haphazardly in the street never in fact
only a couple of days ago I was having
this debate with with a local counselor
who was very very much against you know
the the presence of Muslims in in our
locality I said to him listen there are
hundreds of thousands of British experts
who live work and spend their entire
lives in Muslim countries wouldn't it be
easy if that were the tendency the DNA
the intrinsic in you know instinctive
reaction of Muslims to to basically set
upon those people within the Muslim
Community who he believed you know
believed in Shar and believed in
attacking all non-muslims wouldn't that
be the case but we never hear of that
simply because Muslims are not so
inclined and we need to understand that
these people weren't radicalized because
of a passage they read in the Quran or
something they heard of the Prophet it
was because they saw images of Abu it
was because of the stories they heard
coming out from Guantanamo it was
because they heard that their own
government had committed atrocities in
various countries including Muslim
countries and they became in the way
that they did that's no justification
but we need to understand how this is
created and we need to understand that
unless we change course this might
happen again final word literally 10
seconds what's your view on chilot being
postponed I think it's uh it's because
it'll cost in the coming election I
think that
uh truth hasn't been found I I think
truth wasn't even sort at some stage
that's not no condemnation of Lord
chilot himself but the whole inquiry and
its remit I don't think it really wanted
to get to the bottom of what happened in
2003 which may turn out to be and I
think it is the crime of our time I told
you he was eloquent and US alter thank
you very much for joining us coming up
after the break he's been an interne a
convicted political prisoner the founder
of a world-class Festival written poetry
plays political tracks news newspapers
and now the relaunch and much improved
edition of his novel West Belfast he's
Danny Morrison and he's up on the
Sputnik
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next welcome back to Sputnik Danny
Morrison is an iconic figure in the long
struggle for Irish unity and
independence from Britain he spent years
behind bars as a political prisoner like
so many thousands of others of course
one difference is that while prison was
a university for all Republican
prisoners for Denny Morrison it was a
gateway to his current role as a
renaissance man he's a poet a playright
an author a journalist a propagandist
for his cause without peer and with the
revised and reissued West Belfast again
a novelist of what we now call the
troubles and he joins us now Danny
Morrison welcome on board the Sputnik
let me say it is a brilliant novel thank
you touching beautifully observed
troubling of of course
disturbing uh and you wrote it 25 years
ago that's right but this is effectively
now being launched in fact its official
launch is next week next Thursday 20 25
years is a long time between between
writing and launching explain why well
when it was published 25 years ago uh
within a couple of weeks I was arrested
and charged with conspiracy to murder
and kidnapping and Ira membership and
was sentenced to 8 years impr prison for
that although that has subsequently been
overturned I was set up by a British
agent a man under the name of steak
knife was his code name uh so that has
been overturned and I'm currently suing
the British government for wrongful
arrest so in actual fact this next
Thursday is the official launch of West
Belfast uh my publisher decided to
reissue it to celebrate the fact that it
was 25 years old and when I went back
looking at it I realized oh my God it
was full of purple pros and to many
adjectives and adverbs and I decided to
cut a lot out so I cut about 15,000
words out but I ended up putting about
5,000 words in the same story same plot
but the nness community what it was like
for them a peaceful community that tried
uh peaceful means to get their civil
rights and of course they were
suppressed and beaten into the ground so
it covers all of the major events in the
early days Civil Rights Movement uh the
pgms of 1969 false curfew and of course
inter blood Sunday and it covers that
period and it shows you high a peaceful
community a section of it could move
towards supporting uh an arm struggle
well the
characterization uh I remember although
Scotland and West Belfast are quite
different places in many respects the
lives of workingclass people were very
similar Sunday Post Sunday post was even
in the novel The your mother in her
apron not taking her apron off until
quite late in the evening signaling that
her day is done and so on uh the faith
uh then quite common in workingclass uh
communities you and I are both quite
good propagandists it's easy for us to
write political tracks it's very much
more difficult to write a novel and I
don't know that I could do it you get
the dialogue beautifully did you find
that difficult well well thank you very
much for that I mean I always wanted to
be a writer and when the troubles broke
out I I mean I remember the first time I
bought a typewriter uh to write poetry
and to write novels but the first letter
that I wrote was a letter to our local
paper the Irish news protesting against
the shoo and dead of William hollan by
the British Army on the Falls Road so
there's always this split between you
know what I wanted to do I ended up
whatever I suppose purported talent I
had towards uh explaining things uh I I
devoted myself to the Republican cause
for 25 30 years I was in prison when the
ceasefire was called and uh this novel
had just been published before my arrest
I wrote two more books in prison and
when I came out the peace process was
underway and I know a conversation with
a friend and com Jerry Adams who
supported me and going down this road so
I've you know as of car a literary
career but I still keep my hand and I'm
still much interested in commentating on
what is going on not just in Ireland but
of course internationally well of course
there's a a very important new turn in
Irish British relations which is in a
way foretold in your book in the
interrogation scene uh tell us about
that well when I was researching the
book I interviewed three of the men the
hooded men these were people who were
arrested during interment week in
1971 uh they were brought away to the
secret interrogation Center they were
subjected to uh beat White Noise mock
executions were thrown out of
helicopters forced run over glass were
deprived of food and water for up to 10
days they were dressed and this is where
the it's amazing you know when history
comes repeats itself almost in guantan
Lake they had hoods on for those those
those eight to nine days and they were
just in one outfit and an overall and
they were forced to stand against the
wall now the Irish government took the
British government to the European Court
uh on torture allegations back in 1971
and of course the British government
denied these allegations but recently as
a result of work by the human rights
organization the pat fukan Center and
Pat fukan of course was a human rights
lawyer whom Britain was involved in
assassinating with loyalists uh the
pukan center came across this letter at
Q Gardens buried and along with
thousands of other documents showing
Merlin reays who was then the Secretary
of State writing to James Callahan who
was then the Liber prime minister
stating that the government had cleared
the torture and that Lord car Arington
himself Ministry of Defense had cleared
and this is why their people could they
had to defend the police and the the
soldiers involved and as a result of
torture he uses the word torture and uh
as a result of this document being found
by the pukan center the Irish government
four weeks ago has reinstated the
torture case in European court so
Britain is now once again in the duck
for what it did in
Ireland well puk's been Pat Fan's son uh
has been on this uh show and Lord
Carrington's still alive you know he's
95 and he's still alive and he Merin re
in a British an official letter although
a letter that was of course hidden from
the public states that Lord carington
and the British government and by the
way Merlin re also says I spoke to LIT
bran Faulkner about this and he confirms
this that's and bran Faulkner was of
course the prime minister at Stormont
who was in charge whenever interment was
introduced with devastating effect which
also you had a massive m in in in B
Murphy as the parat troopers were making
arrests they they killed uh many many
people including a priest we' had the
filmmaker who's made the film belly
Murphy also on the show now without ever
uh accusing or asking you to acknowledge
that you've ever held a sword the pen in
your case is definitely mightier than
the sword isn't it because even British
cabinet ministers like Michael Portillo
uh go and see your plays and mark them
10 out of 10 in their literary uh
criticism uh did you learn this during
your time in prison or did you did you
feel you had an nent Talent you got the
typewriter uh when you were young how
how much of a part did prison play in
your flowering as a literary figure well
I mean as I said earlier I always wanted
to be a rer and I I kept daries 1968
right up until I was a republican
activist 1972 when I could no longer
keep daries uh I've been in prison four
times the last time I was in in in
prison I really got down to reading and
catching up on all the works you know
like the Russian and German literature
uh world literature that I had missed
out on so I I was always practicing my
writing and I suppose in writing
speeches for people uh in making
speeches and and doing interviews I was
also the editor of Shin's National
newspaper for many years and I was the
national director of publicity for
shinen for 11 years uh during a hectic
period in the uh late 70s and uh
throughout the 1980s so I I see now I'm
a great grandfather I'm uh still
interested in politics but I my main
interest is in in writing Works which
are worthy of the of of the community
there's always going to be a political
element to it me one of my books was uh
which which I wrote In present was uh
about a gay Postman and Loyalist
prisoners in in the Gil were slagging me
and shirting abusing me because of that
another one of my books the wrong man
was written from uh an informer's point
of view sympathetic portrayal of an
Informer which some of my comrades in
the Republic movement found uh a bit
strange given the fact that myself and
others had been sentenced to uh well
between us about 100 years in jail on
the word of a British agent one of the
most honorable things about your preface
to the reissued West Belfast is your
acknowledgement that you you may have
have wrongly caricatured your opponents
enemies uh because of a lack of
knowledge a lack of interface in the in
the 25 years since you've learned more
uh about the people on the other side if
you like of the of the wall was that
difficult to do and
acknowledge well uh well of course as a
result of the peace process and as a
result of the you know the the movement
towards reconciliation I've met and have
become friends with a lot of people who
were you know considered characterized
as former enemies including former I men
former British soldiers and former
unionist politicians and I think this is
the importance of talking and engagement
is is you know it's so clear to me I
mean the irony of the British government
released J Adam in terment in 1972 flew
him and other leaders by in an RAF plan
to come to London for talks at a time
when they had no mandate and then when
he gets elected they B him from entering
Britain and they introduce the
broadcasting act they've got all of
these Aries so the importance and I
think it's an international it's a
position I would hold internationally
regardless of how the temptation to
demonize the enemy It's always important
to talk it's the most important thing I
think in terms of Peace building is to
to always engage in talks and I think
this is applicable right across the
world particularly in the Middle East
Danny this would make a cracking film
have you had any offers yet no I I haed
well the wrong man the play was uh
people were interested in making the
film F but then like all of these things
they go through phases one year it's
going to be a gangster movie next year
it's going to be an Escape movie so
hopefully we'll see maybe you've got
some contact well I do have one or two
filmic uh contacts uh I'll send it over
to Sean Penn Danny Morrison thanks for
coming thank
you and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling guy well I
asked the people uh to reflect on the
Paris attacks and for example the March
that took place in Paris right after it
and Hannah slate responds well when you
invite Israeli and Arabs leaders to of
Paris March focusing on peace and Free
Speech you've either got a dark sense of
humor or you're mad very well put and
earthian says false Flags to Garner
support for more bankers and Wars proit
over over people well that's it for this
week which alas means that's the end of
the show you can keep in touch with us
on Twitter rtor Sputnik and on Facebook
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye
from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been marvelous
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